Twenty minutes with Seth Berger, the most interesting man in Pennsylvania

Seth Berger is the head coach of the Westtown School’s basketball team, featured in Sports Illustrated TV’s newest documentary, “We Town.” It’s the first original sports documentary created for SI TV and is available to stream now on Amazon Channels. The launch of “We Town” kicks off a series of sports documentaries made for SI TV, with a second doc coming from regarded filmmaker Jonathan Hock later this year.

Berger spoke with The Step Back’s Paul Centopani on everything from coaching future lottery picks, Mo Bamba and Cam Reddish to two Pennsylvania state titles, to the one-and-done rule, to getting into fistfights over a sandwich.

Paul Centopani: Seth, thanks for taking the time to talk with me. How’s the team doing this season?

Seth Berger: The season finished at the end of February. We won our league but lost in the state semifinals this year. Cam was hurt for the state playoffs but we still, quite frankly, should have won. It was a good-not-great year. When you don’t win the state title, it feels like a tough year.

PC: Yeah, you win back-to-back titles, it’s hard to live up to that. I just watched the documentary, your Westtown starting five from last season had Mo Bamba, a projected high lottery pick; Cam Reddish, a top-3 recruit in the country going off to Duke next year; Brandon Randolph, plays for Arizona; Anthony Ochefu’s playing for Stony Brook; and Jake Forrester, who signed a letter of intent with Indiana. How did you recruit such a talented roster?

SB: The truth is, we don’t really recruit. Kids wanna play with very good kids. I think from my third year at Westtown we had some really talented players and the best way for kids to get better is to play with other really good players and practice every single day. All those kids reached out to us about coming to Westtown. I think Cam Reddish might have been the only kid that I talked to them about, and I already knew his father.

All the kids that have come to Westtown, they’re usually referred by a parent or a coach and they see a level of potential, of untapped potential in those kids and know that playing against really good kids every day they can get there. And I think that with each of those kids in the starting five, you see that. Like Brandon Randolph, when he came to Westtown, he had an offer at Manhattan College, one offer. By the end of the season, he was the next super high riser from the East coast. When Mohammed came, he was the 54^th ranked player in the class. And when Jake came, he had an offer over at Stony Brook and North Florida. They want to play with each other and they want to play against each other every day.

PC: Is the hardest thing about having so many phenoms just keeping them motivated?

SB: You know, I don’t think so. I think the kids get to be there because they are motivated, or they wouldn’t be phenoms. This is gonna sound ridiculous, but there are a lot of 6-foot-9, 6-foot-10 kids who can actually run and jump and catch and dunk. It’s the ones who work really hard that rise to the highest level. There’s no doubt that in some games when the other team’s overmatched, they give less than their best at times and that’s been a learning experience for me.

Last year, I figured out it’s not about winning or losing, it’s about giving your best. I don’t care if they’re going to the NBA or if they’re not gonna play Division III basketball, they have to come off the court. At times in games, you gotta be like, ‘hey listen, you’re not giving your best, you gotta take a break until you’re gonna go out and give your best.’

PC: Do you still talk to Mo, Brandon, or Anthony?

SB: All the time…[laughs]…Mo texted me this morning! Mo texted me this morning just to remind me that I’m still fat and overweight. Yep, that’s my guy.

PC: [laughing] That’s good stuff. Last season, Westtown went 32-2, had 25 straight wins en route to consecutive Pennsylvania state titles. By all means, it’s considered one of the best high school teams ever. So the first thought that came to my head, who were those two losses against?

SB: It’s interesting, in the early part of the year we were 7-0 and then we went down to a national event at Separation Sports. In that week Mohammed and Anthony got into a fight with each other in their dorm. They’re best friends and they got into a best friend fight over a Wawa sandwich. It wasn’t a huge deal, but there were a couple punches thrown and they were suspended for five days. So we went down to D.C. and we first played Putnam Science without both of them. We survived, I think we only lost by seven.

But in that game, Brandon hurt his leg. So the next day we played Rock Creek Christian, who I think was ranked No. 20 in the country. We got smoked. We had 20 rebounds, they had 21 offensive rebounds. Then the following week, we went down to City of Palms and we beat Hillcrest in the first round, then lo and behold, we play Putnam Science, the team we just lost to a week before, in the second round with our full squad and we beat them to win the championship down there. So those were our only two losses, without two and three of our starters.

PC: Well that definitely makes sense then. And to be fair, Wawa sandwiches are delicious and I’ve gotten into fights with my best friends for much less. That’ll happen, that’s part of the process of being best friends. So Mo’s projected to be a top-5 pick. Do you think there is a team in particular or a situation in general that would be best suited for him?

SB: That’s a great question. I think this is gonna be an interesting draft and teams are gonna draft on need early. Then as you get past probably six, you take the best player available. What I think makes Mo unique in this draft, among a group of very talented bigs, is he is by far the best defender and I think has the most upside. If I’m drafting and I’m a team that’s in the top-5, if I’m not very good, I don’t think I’m gonna win the NBA Finals next year, I want a kid that’s gonna great in three-to-four years. That’s definitely Mo. Conversely, if I’m the Celtics and I’m drafting early, he fits perfectly with how they play and what they expect their bigs to be able to do. Mo’s so versatile. I think Mo will be a combination of Dwight Howard defensively and Kevin Garnett offensively. You put those two together, that’s a pretty special player that’ll fit just about anywhere.

PC: The Celtics were my answer to that, so great minds think alike. In the doc, it showed Mo disagreeing with the one-and-done rule and him explaining it’s unjust. What’s your take on NBA eligibility? Do you think high schoolers should be able to go straight to the pros? Or would you want longer college requirements?

SB: I’m always gonna take the side of the kids. I completely understand how this works for the NBA. General managers get a window into seeing what a kid might be for a year in the NCAA or overseas. They get more downside protection and less risk. So it totally makes sense for the NBA. At the same time, for the kids, you tell me another profession, if you’re one of the top-3 18-year-olds in the world at what you do, where you’re prohibited from making money. Now the interesting thing quite frankly, kids can go make money if they go overseas.

They can go get big sneaker contracts right away and play for teams abroad if they don’t want to play in college. It’s not like the NBA is stopping them from being pros, the NBA is just exercising its right to say, ‘we don’t want to pay you until you are 19 and a year out of high school, which it has every right to do. But I think for some kids, the idea of going to play one year in college is what they dreamed of, what they always wanted to do was make a Final Four. For some other kids, it’s like hey you know what, if I’m gonna be a pro, I might as well go be a pro now.

PC: So you started AND1 after graduating from Wharton Business School at 25. Very impressive. I rocked a ton of AND1 during my middle school days, so thank you. Was it simply a love for basketball and business converging that sparked the company?

SB: [laughs] Probably more a love for basketball than business. I was 25, I was single, I was broke. No wife, no kids. And I wanted to do something that I loved. Life is short. When I first graduated that spring, I was interviewing for investment banking gigs. And I just could not see myself enjoying the years between 25 and 35, pursuing that career. Not that there’s anything wrong with it, but I just didn’t want to do that. I wanted to wake up every day doing something that I loved. With AND1, it was best of both worlds because I got to work in a business that I loved, being in sports and I got to work with people that I loved, working with some of my best friends.

PC: And you turned down a job offer to run Reebok?

SB: After we sold AND1 in May of 2005, I think that summer Adidas had bought Reebok. Adidas was one of the companies we were talking to when selling AND1 and I got to know their management team pretty well. The then-CEO of Adidas, Herbert Hainer, asked if I had any interest of going up to Boston. I was incredibly flattered that he even wanted to talk to me about it. But it was kinda insane. At that point I was 36 or 37, I didn’t want to spend the next five years on a plane away from my wife and kids. I felt it was time for me to do something different and make a difference. And that’s when I tried to start coaching.

PC: This is your eleventh year as head coach at Westtown, right?

SB: Yeah. I was an assistant for two, and I just finished my eleventh as head coach.

PC: And you had no prior coaching experience before that?

SB: I did not, [laughs] and some would tell you I have none now.

PC: [laughing] What did you do land that job and how did you prepare for it?

SB: My kids were in the school, they had been in the school since kindergarten. And we had been the host family for a couple kids on the basketball team. When we sold AND1, I went to the head coach and asked him if he needed a second volunteer assistant. I’d love to just come and learn about the game. I played for years and thought I knew and then once I started coaching I realized how little I knew. In the first couple years, I was semi-retired and I would watch hours upon hours of these DVDs. They used to have these basketball coaching DVDs. I had over a hundred. Everything from skill development for a big man, to how to break the press. I tried to get myself educated. I would also go to tons of college practices. Fran Dunphy from Temple, Fran O’Hanlon from Lafayette, Jay Wright from Villanova, they all allowed me to come into their practices, any I wanted, to come watch and learn. And I did.

I would go to high school practices, everything. I think when you start something new, the initial time period is crucial in terms of your learning curve. Your learning curve is so steep, you have to overinvest your time or what happens is you just muddle along. When I started coaching, my goal was not to move up to college, my goal was to be the best coach I could be to serve the kids at Westtown. So I invested as much of my time as I could to get better at that.

PC: That’s such an awesome story. It’s near and dear to me because I’m trying to do the same thing as a writer. I don’t have the background for it, so I’m immersing myself and trying to learn as much as I can and put as many hours in as possible.

SB: Awesome, man. Good luck.

PC: Thanks, it’s going alright so far. Just look, I’m talking to you right now.

SB: [laughs]

PC: You’ve had a fascinating career so far. Now I read you’re a managing director of the 76ers innovation lab?

SB: Yes, it’s this incubator. I’ve been there almost two years now. Scott O’Neil’s the CEO of the 76ers, he and I have been super close since 1994, in fact, he was working for the Nets while I was at my first trade show selling AND1 t-shirts. We met each other and he used to help me sneak into the Brandenburg arena to give t-shirts to the Nets players. We just became close. We did a business together in the late 90s, HoopsTV.com. Then he obviously rose to incredible success in sports. So the Sixers were doing an innovation lab, he asked me if I wanted to come in and be the managing director. My kids are old enough now that I got to have enough quality time with them. They don’t really want to hang around and play with dad anymore, they want to hang out with their boys, so let me spend these other hours of the day being productive again.

PC: Okay, I have three comparison questions for you. You already gave me Mo as a combination of Dwight Howard on D and Kevin Garnett on offense. You said in the doc that Cam Reddish is the most complete and hardest working high school player you’ve ever seen. What would you think his NBA comp would be?

SB: I think he’ll be a combination of Penny Hardaway and Tracy McGrady. I think he’s gonna be equally adept at being a great point guard who can see over defenses and a scoring threat. As skilled as he is, his IQ is off the charts. Rarely does a play end in a way it shouldn’t if Cam is on the floor.

PC: You played a lot of basketball in your day, what NBA player would you compare your game to?

SB: I tell you what’s terrible, at this point in my life, I’m still playing and I finally came to the position that I’m supposed to be. I used to think that I was like a drive-and-dish 1. I played a year of JV basketball at Penn and I was for sure that I was a worse version of Isiah Thomas of my generation. What I think I’ve come to realize these days, is that I’m actually a much smaller version of Truck Robinson who played for the Knicks back in the day. Today, I am a great screen-and-stand guy. You’ve got pick-and-roll guys, you’ve got pick-and-pop guys, but I’m gonna screen and stand. If I’m gonna screen for you, it’s for you to score because I don’t plan on moving after. My natural position that God obviously intended me to be is an immobile, undersized 4.

PC: That’s a great, great position. [laughs] One of the more interesting parts of the documentary was how they showed of your home life and how you and your wife adopted five Nigerian boys. How did that all come to be?

SB: They’re five brothers, the first four went to Westtown, the youngest is transferring there next year. What happened effectively was in my second year of coaching, the oldest are twins, they came over to come to Westtown and we were their host family. They would come to our place every weekend and we just developed a close relationship. Mom and dad were home with the three younger boys, and the plan was for all of them to come to Westtown. All great students. Their father was the first person in all of West Africa to get a Ph.D. in agriculture. He’s a university professor, he’s studied all over the world. When he sent his kids to Westtown, we communicated via email, I told him, as I do all the kids, that I would treat his kids as my own if he chose to send them here, and this would be their home when they’re over here.

That spring, their father passed away. The first spring when the older kids were here. So their mom was home with three kids and the oldest twins, before they went back home for the funeral, we sat down in the family room, I said listen, we’re not going to legally adopt you because your mother’s still alive and that’s not what this is about. But we love you boys and would love you to be part of our family if you want to. If you have to stay home to help take care of the family we completely understand, but if you want to come back, then our home is your home. When they came back they said yes, we’d love for you to be our guardians. So that’s how that happened. Then the next year, the third of five came, two years after that the fourth of five came, and two years ago the youngest came. Four of them already graduated from Westtown. They went to Brown, Skidmore, American, and one’s still at Skidmore. The youngest is a ninth grader. So we have eight boys, between the five of them and three of ours, and it’s great. They’re amazing kids and the oldest ones are amazing role models for my kids.

PC: Your son TJ is on the team.

SB: Yeah he is. He is now almost 6-foot-3, he’s had a ridiculous year. He was one of our two most-improved players this year. We were 9-7 early in the season and we moved him finally into the starting point guard spot, I probably waited too long. After that, we went 15-5 and our points per game went up by 15 and his assist-to-turnover ratio is 3-1. As tough as he had it his freshman year, it was the exact opposite. He had a great year as a sophomore.

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PC: How do you strike the balance between coach and dad, and the importance of academics in addition to all the basketball commitments?

SB: In terms of academics, there’s no compromise. Academics come first. A couple years ago, when he had gotten a couple Bs, maybe even a B-, my wife was pretty clear that if he didn’t get academic distinction, he was not going to be playing AAU basketball in the spring or the summer. My wife is a Wharton undergrad and I’m not sure if she ever got anything less than an A in high school, so we don’t really play when it comes to academics. That’s automatic. In terms of balance between coach and father, it’s really simple: when we’re in the gym, I’m your coach, I’m not your father in any way. It’s easy because I tend to treat my players the same way I treat my kids and I treat my kids the same way I treat my players. So if I need to be hard on you, I’ll be hard and if I need to be loving, then I’ll be loving.

Hopefully, I’ll give a kid whatever he needs to be his best. This year, we had a really interesting experience where it got a lot better for me. It was very hard for me, I thought TJ was miserable. I thought he didn’t like it, I thought he didn’t like playing for me. I thought I was holding him back. We were in the gym in January after practice, he was the last kid in the gym, getting up jumpers. Coach Dunphy from Temple is there, he says to me, “how’s it going this year?” I say good. He says, “no, how’s it going with him?” And he points to TJ. It’s getting better, we’re starting to learn to manage it. He pulls TJ over and goes, “TJ, how do you like playing for your dad?” TJ says, “it’s a 9.8 out of 10, coach. It’s my favorite part of the day.” Well, if he enjoys it, then I should enjoy it. Once I knew he enjoyed playing for me, then it got a lot easier.